Difference between revisions of "Feedback"

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* Off-site logistics was a mess, during buildup the schedule was changed drastically without communication about it, we ended up waiting 9 hours for a truck that was smaller than promised requiring a second trip. Teardown I drove the van myself. [[User:SA007|SA007]] ([[User talk:SA007|talk]])
 
* Off-site logistics was a mess, during buildup the schedule was changed drastically without communication about it, we ended up waiting 9 hours for a truck that was smaller than promised requiring a second trip. Teardown I drove the van myself. [[User:SA007|SA007]] ([[User talk:SA007|talk]])
 +
** Off-site had no dedicated team, and was arranged on-field by people who did had more tasks. Key take-away points is that this is a single person core task to arrange. This person should not be on the road most times. Also, take into account that: a) Bakwagens can only drive 90km/h, and less when they are overloaded. b) Loading takes at least an hour. Yes, even for those small jobs. c) Traffic incidents happen. Nobody could predict there would be manure on the big roads thanks to some angry people, but that anything could and would delay the transportation was a given and initialy not taken into account. d) Communicate with the people in the trucks and the people waiting on the trucks. e) Trucks are usefull on the field, so more==better. The initial two would be in full-time use, and the four of the teardown were also in full use. f) If a truck does not start, check if it has a gear shift lock build in. [[User:Boekenwuurm]]
  
 
=== On-Site Logistics ===
 
=== On-Site Logistics ===

Revision as of 21:35, 9 August 2022

Posted reviews, media, blogs/vlogs, photo collections, etc

Please post these on the memories page.

How to post feedback

First of all, let's talk about negativity bias a bit. Please make sure to post a fair balance between positive and negative feedback. Feedback about what went wrong is important, but feedback about what went right is even more important. Do share your negativity, but please be kind and remember we're a bunch of volunteers. To thrive and continue to organize these events, we need a certain amount of positivity, preferably a list of the very specific things you loved and would like to experience again!

Please add your feedback below. Use * to add a bullet point, *: to add an indented bullet point (adding to or replying to comment above), and -- ~~~ to sign your name.

Example:

* Sample text :) -- ~~~

turns into

Add a subject if it isn't there yet using == subject==

Use the [edit] links next to the individual headings to reduce the likelihood of wiki edit conflicts.

Topics

General / overall

  • So happy about the progressive pride and Antifa flag on the tower
  • Awesome event again, thanks to everyone who did their part to making it such -- SK (talk)
  • It was fantastic and I am already stoked for the next one! -- Mosquito (talk)
  • I had a great camp overall, it was way more comfortable than I'd expected and things seemed to run smoothly. Being greeted by progressive pride flag on the Orga tent and tower instantly made me feel at ease. -- Dany (talk)
  • would be a really good idea to water the ways more often, to prevent the dust. -- Justelex (talk)
    • I'd be afraid this would quickly turn into mud, and I prefer dust to mud -- Pinoaffe (talk)
  • It seems that there was so much time spend on nice to haves and to little on must haves resulting in quite a few people beeing totally burned out, I really wonder if its worth it organizing it again next year at this size with this much "consumers" visiting and maybe just going back to a smaller size is nicer, the big presence of sponsors also did not help with this feeling. -- Erik (talk)
    • I am not quite sure where you saw those "consumers", especially since that would be quite a high entry price for a consumer (no daytickets and all). As far as I know we didn't finish selling all tickets so it was smaller then expected even. Although I do understand that you are longing for a smaller sized event (there are definitely a couple of those out there), I dearly hope that this event will even grow, since it is quite nice to have more and new people being interested and learning more. Sponsors I am unsure about, since I do know they were a big help in financing the whole event. With the point of being to burned out, that might be a problem of scheduling and volunteering, since there were around ~400 volunteers for the whole event (officially).
    • Don't worry, next year is not a thing, we do this every four years (Corona volente). As for the size of the event, for me it's just about right as it was this year, but opinions can and will always differ. If you like a cosy, small event that happens next year, Bornhack might be your thing.Moem (talk)
  • Still amazed by the amount of creativity and community, so many people sharing what they love and are good at -- Raboof (talk)
  • I loved the event and am so glad I went. It was my mate's first camp and they had a blast too. Thanks for making it happen so awesomely! -- Bronsen (talk)

Arrival / departure / parking / train shuttle / luggage shuttle

  • I was surprised twice that empty places in the field were apparently claimed. It was not clear to me that people had staked out places already on the wiki. This would seem to me one of The Most Important Things To Tell People: "whatever is on the wiki wins". Or perhaps abolish that, also fine by me, but in any case be very clear about it. I could also do with an AR app or so that shows me what people claimed :-) -- Ahu (talk)
    • Next time we should plan some areas for 'those without village', i heard they were planned for this time but they might have gotten lost with the last minute rearranging due to the double booking. -- Sebastius (talk)
    • (moved my feedback here to Feedback#Villages) -- Raboof (talk)
  • Last day of the event felt kinda "lost" as people were beginning to tear things down from early on in the day well before the closing event. Was bit of a weird mood/feeling. -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 Agreement from my side -- Foorschtbar (talk)
    • While it is pretty normal for many people to already pack their things on the last day, the problem was certainly exacerbated by the fact that a roundmail on day 4 told all villages that their rented tents had to be "cleaned and empty" no later than 17:30 on day 5. That really gave villages no choice but to tear everything down during daytime on day 5. PoempelFox (talk)
  • The parking area was way better then at Sha. A Regular people shuttle on the field with one or two 4+ seater golfcarts would be awesome for pregnant / people that can't walk long distances and so on. (Maybe also on call would be enough) -- Justelex (talk)
  • "Shuttle goes when it goes" without any indication how long it will take is no option for people who have to catch their train/flight. We had many questions and complaints at the infodesk. A schedule would be great. -- sirgoofy
  • The shuttle stop changed during the event. It would be great to have a dedicated shuttle stop (with sign and timetable) during the event.
  • The payment system for the shuttle was too complicated. We had many questions about buying tickets at the infodesk. People tried to buy tickets in the online shop, but had problems getting their order paid. It would be better to make it free, or allow to pay in cash in the shuttle.

Badge

  • Very well-made and polished badge, really surprised me with the effort put into it and its versatility! Vurpo (talk) 21:07, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • The badge is really nice, but the price of MCH admission is already hindering people we'd like to reach. Perhaps do consider if we really need it. -- Ahu (talk)
  • Awesome badge, I had a lot of fun tinkering with it during camp and always received helpful advice in the IRC channel. Please keep this project going! Alxndr (talk)
  • The badge is amazing! However, I feel bad that my badges from previous events barely got used and this one is likely to suffer the same fate. For environmental/cost reasons, I kinda wish I could have opted out. Alternately, if there were a way to hand my badge in after the event and know it would be used for educational purposes later on, I would have given it up a heartbeat. -- HerraBRE
  • Really love the badge, it inspired me to try micropython for the first time. Also I find it to be a piece of art, the PCB design is just great. On the other side, I'm also sceptical on the ecological aspects. I fear that many hackers will not use it anymore after the event or even never use it at all. Maybe it would be a good idea to offer badges as an option instead of giving everyone a piece. -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)

Bars and food court

  • The capacity of the food-stands was quite low, which resulted in long waiting times. Not good with hungry kids. Fhp (talk)
  • Agree with above: low capacity for the commercial food stands. They also didn't seem to grasp the concept of 'lunch'. I expected them to be up and running around 13.00, but most of them weren't, resulting in even longer lines at the places that were open earlier. -- Dany (talk)
  • The food stands I've visited (Wok, Fries) had poor in-person advertising of everything that they were actually selling and how much it cost. -- Rot13 (talk)
    • Agreed. Menu and pricing was often hard to read -- j0chen (talk)
  • The Johny Cash Burger was great but mostly I fed on waffles by the awesome C3WOC <3. And of course one can rely on the Italian Hackers' Embassy for excellent pasta and Italian Grappa. By the way... is there a Spanish or French Embassy with similar services? Would put that on my checklist for the next camp. ;-) Oh and Angel Food was also great and healthy. Didn't miss meat there, eating more veg is better for the environment anyways. Thanks for the opportunity! Conclusion: Wide range, many choices, very good! -- Mosquito (talk)
  • Frietsaus is not Mayo. MrLinux
  • The split layout of the bar/food area didn't really work. You couldn't see all in one go, so most people only visited one bar making a huge queue there. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Coffee vendor people had no idea what they were doing. Literally not knowing what a Latte Machiatto is while it's on their menu. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Next time get food vendors from several companies instead of using one single source. Yes it's more work to set up but this time the overall quality was not great (but acceptable). -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Next time also get some vendors who do varied meals (every day a different choice, like the vegan place at CCCamp2019) at competitive pricing. -- Sebastius (talk)
    • +1 I think some vendors (pizza) had very little choice, which has not changed. -- j0chen (talk)
  • Next time allow Mecklenborger to also have a food-truck for the general public on camp. -- Sebastius (talk) +1
  • Overall nice. Might be good to promote villages that have good capacity for selling food as well somehow, to make it more 'integrated'? -- Raboof (talk)
    • especially the C3WOC with their delicious waffles -- j0chen (talk)
  • Unfortunately the bars were out of the larger plastic glasses very soon. -- Kokx (talk)
  • the commercial food vendors I tried had good quality but rather high prices; so I was glad for the big kitchen in our village -- Bronsen (talk)

Buildup and teardown

  • As one of the persons who collected what felt like a kilometre of Flatterband at teardown, and removed a pile of pegs it was attached to, I would like to thank those buildup angels who didn't sink the pegs below ground level. You made my job a lot easier! :) Alxndr (talk)

COVID19 precautions

  • Thanks for caring about ventilation. CO2 meters and open sides weren't in place during the opening talk, but this was fixed quickly after and I heard the security team kept an eye on the graphs. --Juerd (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • I liked the availability of masks and self tests for those who forgot to bring their own. I've heard about a few dozen people who got infected, but there were probably more. Thanks to the rapid tests and the heroes who chose to isolate, we may have averted a disastrous superspreading event. --Juerd (talk) 22:02, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
    • +1 Agreement from my side -- Foorschtbar (talk)
    • Very much appreciated the easy availability of masks and rapid tests. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • It would have been good to switch from recommended to required mask wearing, at least indoors, once it became clear that "personal responsibility" wasn't working out (even in this community, what a disappointment). Alxndr (talk)
    • Agreeing on all points. Was also a bit disappointed. -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 -- Bronsen (talk)
    • Its quite hard to do that in a country where this is not a rule anymore.
    • +1 -- Polyfloyd (talk)
  • It was good to request/require mask wearing in the food queue in Heaven. It would have been even better to do it from the very beginning. Moem (talk) 09:20, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
  • The quarantine field was a good thing to have for Hackers that were not able to leave immediately -- Polyfloyd (talk)

Cohesion

  • Put your feedback here :)

Content / talks / heralds / speakerdesk / AV / recordings

  • In the end it worked pretty well, but perhaps do ponder having some "known good" presenter laptops/devices available. This has worked very well for other conferences. I used a 200 euro Chromebook with a throwaway google account. -- Ahu (talk)
  • This is a matter of taste - if you light up the speakers real well, the audience can enjoy a well lighted speaker. But the speaker then often can't see the audience. And during my talks, I love to actually see the audience. This was better in 2017 (at least in Abacus and Battery). -- Ahu (talk)
  • The speaker desk and the room to work is absolutely ACE. -- Ahu (talk)
  • Very friendly and helpful people at the speakerdesk and also Heralds and other Angels. Dry running my laptop with the monitor at the Speaker Desk before the talk made me much calmer once I knew that worked. Thank you! -- Mosquito (talk)
  • had the opposite experience: crablab forgot giving me a speaker badge and was not very hospitable "i'd prefer if you bought your mate at the bar" the single time I asked for one in order to work on my slides -- Fraxinas (talk)
  • Generally felt welcome as a speaker, thanks! I didn't end up using the speaker area as it felt a bit like a 'fish tank' being so exposed to the main road (but that might be a personal hang-up ;) ) -- Raboof (talk)
  • It would have been nice to have a more 'integrated' programme containing both the 'curated' content and the 'self-organized' sessions. It was nice that some self-organized sessions were added to https://program.mch2022.org but it'd be even nicer to have that 'direct' somehow -- Raboof (talk)
  • It would have been nice to have an officially-recommended app - Giggity worked great on Android, just promoting that more might have been a good start -- Raboof (talk)
  • It would be nice to cross-link the schedule with the livestreams/recordings better -- Raboof (talk)
  • Several of the workshop presenters said they would make their presentations available, but the majority is unfindable. I did understand a presentation can be added to the schedule, but it is hard to spot that this has actually been done. Maybe an independent index with such material can be made and material actively requested? -- M10 (talk)

CTF

  • The CTF as a whole was excellent. Really interesting challenges on multiple categories and I still think this is the best CTF I have attended. Even the easy challenges had nice twists to them, no basic "'or 1=1;-- = flag" here. -- Onja
  • Both the competitors and the organizers I chatted with were very nice and passionate. Organizers gave good hints without giving too much away on couple of the challenges when we were stuck. -- Onja
  • There were plenty of beverages to keep us going, hard part was to remember to eat something once in a while.
  • Only complaint I have is about the ctf area: the outside tent was mostly more trouble than it was worth with wind trying to blow the whole tent away and the inside got crowded pretty fast. DT lounge area was nice but I'm not 1337 h4x0r enough to sit there 4 days in a row, my back will kill me. :D -- Onja
  • Looking forward to reading challenge writeups (I still want to hear the creators thoughts on Coinflip even though we eventually managed to solve it). Also I agree that Coinflip was one of the tougher challenges, should have been 200 pts (whine, whine). -- Onja
  • Summary: We will definitely be back next time! -- Onja

Decoration / design

  • Well done all around -- SK (talk) 01:07, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
  • The design was so colorful and well thought out, it gave team Deco a lot to work with. Great job! Moem (talk) 09:22, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
  • The deco was really cool, I especially liked the UV-reactive strings that gave the illusion of lasers and the super cute felt plants in the Silent Lounge. -- Dany (talk)
  • Both design and deco were amazing! Also great that it was available beforehand, including the 'generator', so villages etc could use it in their preparations as well -- Raboof (talk)

Family / kids

  • Great vibe at the zone \o/
  • Maybe one or two hot water faucets would be useful (for baby care, for dishwashing, etc)
  • Sponsors like to party, maybe keep that in mind when planning in the noise gradient
  • As someone without kids I love that people feel welcome to bring theirs, and the atmosphere that comes with that. Accidentally ran into the "balloon folding (for adults)" workshop which was hilarious. Great fun. -- Raboof (talk)

Finance / coins / payments

  • Payment by card worked mostly well, other than the supermarket not accepting international cards. My main issue was that the payment system was not well enough explained before the actual event! The blog post and wiki page were pretty long and still left me confused about what the actual payment system on the field was going to end up being. Even a simple "TL;DR we will use regular international payment cards with chip/contactless" would have helped me. Vurpo (talk) 21:04, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • I asked at several bars and the food court where I could get the prepaid card for the MCH payment system, but nobody knew, so I ended up using my regular payment card. Alxndr (talk
    • The MCH payment system only was operational from day 1 (with paper QR codes) and the ability to print them on plastic cards was added later - Noor
    • yeah communication could have been better, the main problem was that most of it was arranged by one single person (never a good idea). Next time we need to find more people who work on the financial/tickets stuff.
  • I liked the idea of the cashless QR-code, especially the later upgrade to a "hard card" rather than just a stub of thermal paper. Avoids using the big payment providers and frees one of having to carry around cash. However I would've loved seeing more universal acceptance around the event (for example at the supermarket). -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 Agreement from my side. I missed also the acceptance at the Merch stand -- Foorschtbar (talk)
  • As a foreigner visiting, I was VERY happy that I could use my card to tap and pay almost everywhere. Get the supermarket on board next time and you get a perfect score from me! The QR code system also worked quite well (I took payment at the bar a few times). I was impressed, well done. - HerraBRE
  • Payment with payment cards in combination with PIN code failed. (only contactless worked, until the 50 euro weekly limit was reached.) MrLinux
  • The payment system is too complex and impractical for such an event. At the infodesk there were many questions and complaints on the payment system. People were confused about whether their bank card is accepted or wanted to buy QR-codes with their cards. There were many complaints about the complexity of the payment system. Normally, payment on such events is straightforward (give some money, get a drink). I guess this complicated system also restrained people from buying drinks (just a gut feeling from the number of bottles collected on the field by Team BOC). There were also many people complaining that they could not get unused money from the QR codes (because they had to leave early or came too late). -- sirgoofy
  • The payment system encouraged people not to bring cash, with is a huge issue for villages -- sirgoofy
    • Many villages rely on donations to cover costs, e.g., for food or parts for workshops, like the Italian Embassy, Millyways, Team Badge, c3woc (waffles), Chaos Post. Donations in cash are straightforward and understandable. Handling cashless donations is complicated (especially for people donating), expensive (i.e., fees), and requires bank accounts (which many villages don't have as they're just a bunch of people and no legal instance).
    • Cashless donations would be handy, though. Many international visitors don't have cash.
    • It would be great if people could donate using the QR code system (and buy QR codes cashless) -- sirgoofy
  • The MCH Payment system was a great benefit. Also that a plastic card could be created that was clearly more robust than the QR code on thermal paper.... Unfortunately, the machine took a long time to accept a bill. In addition, it would be nice to be able to recharge cards so that you can get through the camp with a printed card without directly charging one huge amount. -- j0chen (talk)
  • An ATM would be great next time. My card was declined most of the time, so I reliant on my cash (and an ATM outside of camp) -- j0chen (talk)
    • Or a possibility to get some cash at a desk or so? Cash needed to be handled anyway for the QR codes -- sirgoofy

Harbour / Ferry

  • Loved the ferry service not as much as a shuttle to the other side of the water way, but as a way to enjoy some quiet time and a light breeze to (mentally) recharge away from the event. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • The Ferry Service was great, and especially the operating hours where great. -- Justelex (talk) +1

Information / infodesk / wiki

  • The infodesk should've been open for longer/as long as possible. (background: I've sat on the NOC helpdesk a bunch of times after the last infodesk angles were gone and dealt with quite a few people that were originally looking for the helpdesk; also being able to respond to infodesk calls for longer). -- Rot13 (talk)
  • Would be nice if the wiki was more usable on mobile -- Raboof (talk)
  • The infodesk should be open earlier, at least starting day 0. It was unfortunate that the furniture was late (w/o desk no infodesk) -- sirgoofy

Lounges

  • Silent lounge was very well done. Nicely decorated and people behaving very considerate (i.e. really tried to be silent). No wonder that it was popular to the point where it could've used more pillows. I was worried that people would start camping inside the lounge (similar things happen at congress for example), but that didn't turn out to be true. I've seen plenty of people taking a nap away from the noise of the event, but thankfully nobody started living inside the lounge. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • Besides the silent lounge, I wish there were more places for people, especially for those without a village, to relax in the shade near an Ethernet port and power outlet. In the harbour there was the wood table with tent roof and the bar with a couple of seats, but both away from power outlets. Otherwise, besides the couple of deckchairs, we mostly hard hard wooden benches near the food court without shade (and no power sockets). -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 agreed, a few dedicated shaded outdoor spots would've been nice -- SK (talk)
    • +1 I was going to write the same. Seating on the western part of the food court was hardly used because there was no shadow. Everyone was cramped beneath the roof tent in front of the east bar. On previous events there were more public spaces with roofing, sofas, bean bags, power and network. Nice place with hammocks at the speaker desk but also now shadow. Roof tents would also provide shelter in case of rain (as experienced on previous camps).
    • +1 I'd enjoy that as well! Perhaps with some way to announce what you're working on to encourage spontaneous conversations? Not sure how that would work though -- Raboof (talk)
    • +1 A few shady sitting areas for hackers without Village; with sockets and ethernet sockets would have been very pleasant especially in the sunny and warm weather. -- j0chen (talk)
  • The silent lounge was great, but it was astonishingly hot in the sun. Would recommend having the sides being easily open-able. Otherwise: a giant tent-sized space blanket! -- Polyfloyd (talk)

Merchandise

  • The designs look great, I'm a fan of the asymmetry and the patterned sleeves. Not being able to go a size up or down from what you ordered online was kind of disappointing. Not a major issue for myself but I know of several people who were sad about this. The merch exchange is not a great solution, but better than nothing. --Juerd (talk) 20:54, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
    • That mostly was the result of not receiving as many units as we ordered, sadly. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Merch was great: Awesome design and high quality. Preodering saved me from having to stay in a (humongous) line in the heat. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • I absolutely love the hexagonal patterns and diagrams, but the amount of purple/pink was enough to keep me from buying more than a hat (that, and sizes being too big for me). - Noor (talk)
  • Nice merch, despite at first not being a fan of the design. Option to preorder is great. -- SK (talk)
  • OK so maybe I'm a dinosaur, but if I'd known that "fitted" was inclusive for "ladies", I wouldn't have ordered a way-too-small T-shirt. Not a complaint really, but maybe that could have been explained better? Help us old farts get with the program! :-D
    • 'Fitted' does not mean 'ladies', it means snug and cut to cling to the body, not baggy and loose. I know plenty of gentlemen who prefer that style. Moem (talk)
    • A fitted shirt is not two sizes smaller than the unfitted equivalent. These were women's shirts, which is GREAT, but also a trap for exactly the men (like myself) who prefer a fitted cut. I would probably have needed an XXL, which is ridiculous for someone who normally wears M or L.
  • Love the zipper design and quality, will be one of my favourite pieces from now on :) Preorder and pickup was easy and a great option to avoid long queues at the merch booth. -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)
  • I love how the shirts and hoodies look, but I'm worried about how well they will hold up when being washed. The rainbow looks like it will fall off just like the yellow SHA robot did. You hardly see the SHA shirts being worn anymore... but OHM and even HAR shirts, yes. Moem (talk)
    • +1 love the looks but concerned about the large areas (beam/rainbow) as well - those already seemed to have faded a bit from being folded up in a damp tent... -- Raboof (talk)
  • Loved that there were angel shirts in a different color than black again ;) -- Raboof (talk)

Miscellaneous

  • Swan family was pretty relaxed with all the people and activity, camping out in the middle of the terrain. - Noor (talk
  • It would be nice to have some angel-staffed dishwashing station (with manual rinse and commercial dishwashers) somewhere, to help with saving water and time, and to increase general hygiene (we all know how camp dish cleanliness standards go...) -- Q3k (talk)

Music/laser stage / silent disco / Symphony of Fire

  • The music/laser stage was not a great fit for the event. It drained the villages and talk tents, making those less interesting. Also the whole separate 'party area' does not work for me. I would not miss it if we didn't have one next time. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • No clue why we had a music stage, but if we for some reason must have one, why not have hacker-music on it (e.g. robotic instruments, chiptunes, etc), it was mostly filled with mediocre covers of songs unrelated to the event entirely. SA007 (talk)
  • Party area was WAY too spacious for the amount of people using it. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Loved the silent disco setup though. Also really loved it being used at night to allow the byte battle thingie to take place. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Having hacker built flame throwers which normally look awesome mounted on a commercial stage actually takes away the home-built hacker vibe of those flame throwers. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Music stage with the flamethrowers, and Symphony of Fire were awesome. - Noor (talk)
  • Very well done. Silent disco was a neat solution to the inherent noise conflicts. What exactly is going on could have been a bit more detailed in the schedule, some people were sad they missed interesting things because they didn't realize who was playing. -- SK (talk)
  • For me, the music stage did not really add anything that I would miss if it dit not happen again on a next event. Symphony of Fire was indeed awesome, I wonder if they could have played on a raised podium so more people could have seen what was happening. Moem (talk) 09:27, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
    • +1 -- Fraxinas (talk)
    • +1 Agreement from my side -- Foorschtbar (talk)
    • +1 Symphony of Fire was *the* main act at the stages, a raised podium or bigscreen would have been great that more people can see something. Especially the crowding is perhaps a bit critical with regard to the COVID measures. -- j0chen (talk)
  • Silent disco was so much fun! More, later, longer please! Seems like a great solution for us party animals who don't want calm after 2am. - HerraBRE
  • Music stage was to loud, to horrible and went on for way to long it and nowhere on the terrain you did not hear it, making sleeping almost impossible for people who actually need proper sleep (yes quiet camping was also to loud). -- Erik (talk)
  • Silent disco was a great idea. But for the next time, I'd appreciate it if it wasn't just announced in advance, but if there was also information about the technology, e.g. where/if I can get suitable headphones myself or on which frequencies it runs, so that I can build a receiver myself. As far as I have heard, it was probably possible to receive the radio on the entire camp? -- j0chen (talk)
  • three points
  1. The main stage did not have good sound, despite the the row of massive loudspeakers in front.
  2. Flames were fantastic.
  3. Big screen was good. -- Bronsen (talk)

NOC / Network

  • My SFP+ module got to stay in a datenklo. A++++ would camp again. -- Q3k (talk)
  • Datenklos were sorely missing some CYBER(tm) reflective foil wrapping -- Rot13 (talk)
    • There was a plan for nice aluminium foil/plated cardboard skins with the field name and other decorations on it, but the weather during buildup threw a spanner into that idea... SA007 (talk)
    • +1 Agreement from my side -- Foorschtbar (talk)
  • Some system for releasing cables from the datenklo switches at teardown would help. I couldn't recover my uplink cable and then later realised I left without it. Maybe give a key to a nearby village person that would release cables that have no more active link on a regular basis? -- M10 (talk)

Power

  • Thank you very much for not cutting power off after the closing event as at SHA. -- Malaclypse (talk)
  • I was really happy to have power available until the very end on wednesday! Thanks for that! -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)
    • Agreed. Having power for as long as possible was great. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • The priklichtjes (festoon lights on poles) were a very welcome addition by Team:Power. Moem (talk)
    • They helped me greatly in navigating the terrain in the dark, indicating where the paths where between the villages. -- Rot13 (talk)
      • +1 very nice for indicating paths between tents and nature. -- j0chen (talk)
  • Very impressed with the PowerTeam, kudos! And we learned an important lesson (the hard way) that long PVC cables lying in wet grass will suck up moisture and trip the 'aardlek' (RCD?). This could be written a lot better in the power wiki page so people can prepare better. Now the neoprene cables are only recommended as the better quality, but not that PVC has negative effects, like taking out two villages for a few hours. -- M10 (talk)
  • In general, the cable should be rated for outdoor usage. PVC cables for outdoor use do exist (and are really nice to use because they're more flexible, especially when it's cold), so a simple list of materials doesn't work. (In case you're interested: harmonized cable types have the material encoded in the type, H05RR-F for example means H = harmonized, 05 = 300V, R = rubber inner insulation, R = rubber outer insulation, F = fine stranded. Neoprene is usually identified as RN, indoor PVC as VV, outdoor PVC as V3V3 (e.g. H05V3V3-F). Not sure if listing all outdoor capable material codes would work; just look for "rated for outdoor use"; the IP44 schuko plug with the ring is a good proxy/heuristic for that.) Oh, and by the way, neoprene can also suck up moisture over time! It's just usually slow enough :) --Juerd (talk)
  • Basically everything worked, I could imagine that a distribution of the generators across the camp is perhaps better. At the CCCamp 2019, each larger area had its own generator, so iirc there was never a full blackout. Important systems then simply get two generators (redundancy!). -- j0chen (talk)

Off-Site Logistics

  • Off-site logistics was a mess, during buildup the schedule was changed drastically without communication about it, we ended up waiting 9 hours for a truck that was smaller than promised requiring a second trip. Teardown I drove the van myself. SA007 (talk)
    • Off-site had no dedicated team, and was arranged on-field by people who did had more tasks. Key take-away points is that this is a single person core task to arrange. This person should not be on the road most times. Also, take into account that: a) Bakwagens can only drive 90km/h, and less when they are overloaded. b) Loading takes at least an hour. Yes, even for those small jobs. c) Traffic incidents happen. Nobody could predict there would be manure on the big roads thanks to some angry people, but that anything could and would delay the transportation was a given and initialy not taken into account. d) Communicate with the people in the trucks and the people waiting on the trucks. e) Trucks are usefull on the field, so more==better. The initial two would be in full-time use, and the four of the teardown were also in full use. f) If a truck does not start, check if it has a gear shift lock build in. User:Boekenwuurm

On-Site Logistics

  • Gators are too loud, you can't hear each other inside a tent if they drive by. SA007 (talk)
    • IIRC electric vehicles were unavaible from the local rental companies, unfortunately Flimpie (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2022 (CEST)
    • +1 The gators were also so loud that you could barely understand/use the radio when you were sitting in it -- j0chen (talk)

Other music/noise (outside the official party area)

  • Please NEVER allow Holoplot to be on the field ever again. And if that is impossible to prevent, at least NOT do a late night party with that system. The volume OUTSIDE the tent was horrifying. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Bit torn on this one. It is a party event, but there was way too much loud music post 2 AM. Some of us do need sleep. I know, weak etc. I don't recall seeing a clear policy on what is acceptable, might be behind people feeling ok cranking up the volume after midnight. -- Ahu (talk)
  • The Retro Arcade area was an absolute nuisance at night. They were blasting the neighbouring villages with shitty music and drunken yelling until 2 or 3 am pretty much every day. I can think of several words for this kind of behaviour, and none of them rhyme with "excellent". Alxndr (talk)
    • +1 They also played the same 7 shitty songs each night. Seemed like most of the participants were corporates (BlueHatHacker, etc.). The whole thing felt pretty unfit for MCH. -- JT (talk)
  • It seems like while the official policy was 'no noise after 1AM', it wasn't actively enforced for most cases - and I think that enabled people to also treat it a bit more like a hint rather than a rule? Perhaps for future events we should have numerical 'loudness' scores for all fields, forming a gradient, with a higher score letting people be louder and party later, and actually enforce that. That way loud people can camp in loud villages, while those who need peace and quiet can camp in quiet villages. -- Q3k (talk)
    • I think this was sort-of implemented based on village input, but the usual event fields are just a bit too small for that to work reliably -- SK (talk)
  • This was both badly communicated (FAQ said "until midnight", apparently the actual rule was from 1 am?) and not usefully enforced. Arcade area right next to family village especially apparently could do whatever they wanted. This makes awesome ideas like silent disco for the "official" music stage sadly quite moot. -- SK (talk)
  • second-hand, but if security (i.e. the contact listed for noise complaints on the front page of this wiki!) really responded to calls about this with "don't call us unless there's an actual emergency" some rules seriously need to be re-established -- SK (talk)
  • at the same time small villages further into the "louder sector" (i.e. away from family/silent camping) were told off for having any music on low volume -- SK (talk)
  • Our village was placed in a party area. That was unfortunate. Next time I'll camp in a quiet are even if that means being far away from the village I am interested in. Geraffel adhered to the 1am quiet policy (yay!) but others didn't. They went on till after 4.30 and didn't honor complaints. -- Mosquito (talk)
  • I was sad there was no place to party and dance after 2am. I agree people who want quiet should be able to enjoy quiet, but in a perfect camp there would be room for both. -- HerraBRE
  • The distribution of the Villages and party zones was perhaps not quite ideal, felt the Family Zone (which had asked for quiet) was in the middle of the Party Zone (based on the noise / music) -- j0chen (talk)

POC / Dect / Fieldphones

  • I couldn't find advance information as to when the phone / DECT network would be shut off on the wiki, having such information would be useful (but I may just have been looking in the wrong place) -- Pinoaffe (talk)
  • DECT coverage was great around the whole camp area. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • DECT self-registration worked great (have been used to it for a while now from congress). -- Rot13 (talk)
  • DECT was switched off too early. DECT is mandatory for teardown, especially as the gsm coverage is quite bad -- sirgoofy
    • Nope, it is not mandatory. I have checked, and couldn't find any laws about DECT during teardowns. -- Wheeze_NL
    • I agree that DECT worked amazingly. Due to the infra required, keeping it up during teardown would not be feasible (as it would actually slow down teardown) -- Wheeze_NL

Parcel deliveries

  • Many people that ordered things to the field were (seemingly) unaware of how parcel deliveries were supposed to work. This caused unnecessary overhead. -- Pinoaffe (talk)
  • Collaborating with C3Post may be worthwhile for a next event, though they may not want to deal with large packages. -- Pinoaffe (talk)
    • Delivering anything of real value sounds like a bad idea (on big events). Besides being way more effort than postcards, parcels (pending delivery) would require (secure-ish) storage space while not out for relivery or if the first delivery attempt failed. We'd also need extra couriers and not hand deliveries out to random passing-by hackers, which also leaks the info on the parcel (such as tracking numbers) to said random hackers. Also some postcards just got lost/didn't get delivered, which would be a real issue with parcels. -- Trilader (talk)
  • Parcel deliveries had a procedure outlined at Parcel deliveries to keep them manageable, but somehow people still sent packages to the terrain without following the procedure, maybe something to add to the info booklet/advertise more?

Press / Media coverage

  • Put your feedback here :)

Productiehuis / C3VOC

  • MOST EXCELLENT WORK!! -- Ahu (talk)
  • The video-quality of the (few) talks I watched online was good, and I saw some nice fade effects. Fhp (talk)
  • The hard cutoff of the intro tune annoys me every time. Fhp (talk)
  • Kudos to the C3VOC! That was awesome! Video quality was excellent and the fact that each talk appeared in the C3 media archive only a couple of hours later impressed me very much. That is better service than many (or most?) commercial providers deliver. You people are fantastic! -- Mosquito (talk)
  • Nothing short of amazing -- Raboof (talk)

Projectleiding

ROC

  • Wheeze and his team did a excellent job!
  • Good work by the warehouse team for doing the battery swaps, saved a lot of time! MrLinux
  • Nice we had the HAM radio repeater! MrLinux
  • The ROC team lacked a bit on publicity, improvement for 2025! MrLinux
  • A QSL-wall could be an idea for 2025! MrLinux
  • We missed the VERON at the event MrLinux
  • Excellent Job. A Laminated card with "Radio rules" and the Channel distribution would be a nice thing to be handed out next time. -- Justelex (talk)
    • Would definitely be good, just like enforcing the language on the radio, e.g. in a channel that was supposed to be explicitly in English, Dutch was often spoken anyway -- j0chen (talk)
  • Next time after the DECT comes up, require as many radios as you can to be returned, forcing teams to use dect. Way better audio, point to point connections and people actually being reachable. -- Sebastius (talk)
    • Interesting suggestion. But I would like to hear PL-perspective on this. -- Wheeze_NL
  • The audio quality sucked. Problem with the chosen technology, i know. Most conversations were completely unintelligible. -- Sebastius (talk)
    • Jep, you might be surprised to hear me agree. I am curious what CCC does differently to not have this issue, because it was the exact same equipment. -- Wheeze_NL
  • Teach people how to use the radio properly. I still don't know which name goes first etc. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Reconsider channel system. It happened too often that people were calling/listening on the wrong channel. Flimpie (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2022 (CEST)
  • Educate people on radio etiquette and how to properly talk into a radio. Yelling/speaking too quietly/having too much BG noise, combined with DMR compression creates inaudible speech Flimpie (talk) 22:38, 1 August 2022 (CEST)
  • Ensuring that the correct language is spoken. I heard a lot of Dutch during some security angelshifts, even though the channel was supposed to be in English. -- j0chen (talk)
    • If person A wants to talk to person B and they are both Dutch or German, they should be allowed to speak in Dutch or German. People should have the freedom to express themselves in their prefered language. It is no different from a conversation in person. -- Stern (talk)
    • Specificaly on the Safety-channel, one language would have been the best plan. If was up to that cluster to make sure that would happen. -- Wheeze_NL (talk)
  • Misophonia made it extremely hard for me to use the radio :( If at all possible, better audio quality would help I think -- Polyfloyd (talk)
  • Next time: set up a channel specifically for unaided testing of readability. This means: have a repeater-backed channel that plays back whatever was transmitted to it ('mirror function'). -- Xesxen
  • Please note:
    • Team ROC will be actively using the feedback provided here, thank you for sharing. -- ROC

Safety / stewards / first aid / Fire Marshalls

  • Phone numbers or other contact information was hard to find at the beginning of the event, added to the wiki later. --Juerd (talk) 20:47, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • There were no backup mobile phone numbers (at least none published) for reaching the safety teams in case of infrastructure outage, and they were unreachable when the network was down. --Juerd (talk) 20:47, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • Security: Bike path was open to all, so technically anyone could get on the terrain without a ticket. Which meant at least a few unwelcome visitors. - Noor (talk)
  • I was surprised that the fire extinguishers were the first things being collected from our village (Geraffel) during teardown. At this time we still had a lot of people staying and as murphy wills, the fat bowl of our our barbecue catched fire afterwards. Fortunately nothing bad happened but my expectation would be to have extinguishers available until rented tents are torn down / all visitors are gone. At lease in large villages like ours. -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)

Shuttle services (train station, and luggage on site)

  • Shuttle drop-off point on field should have been marked somewhere on the maps or wiki, during build-up. I spent forever asking around trying to find the drop-off point, only to find it at heaven. - Noor (talk)
  • Shuttle was efficient and worked well when I used it -- SK (talk)
  • Shuttle ticket was a bit last-minute and unclear (i.e. afaik never produced an actual "ticket", which lead to questions - and in the end was more like a donation than a strictly-required ticket) -- SK (talk)

Supermarket

  • The supermarket was a really valuable addition to the event, and probably saved lots of fuel and time for people. I found the prices acceptable, and the choice of products was surprisingly broad! --Juerd (talk) 20:47, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
  • Supermarket was a great thing and I hope we'll have it at the next event. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • Supermarket was wonderful, it felt like being back in civilization again and I could just zip inside to get a drink or breakfast for the next morning. - Noor (talk)
  • was very useful to have and surprisingly well-stocked (i.e. not just packaged junk food). Next time they'll know to bring less soft-drinks and more Ethernet/USB/... cables ;) -- SK (talk)
  • Guests from abroad struggled to make use of the supermarket, since it didn't accept foreign cards and there was no ATM on site. -- HerraBRE
  • The supermarket was a really good idea, however my card was not accepted so I was very dependent on cash - Very limited without an ATM on camp. -- j0chen (talk)

Sysadmin / bofh

  • Having had to deal with the crumbling of central infrastructure in other events, I really appreciated the stability of the wiki and Engelsystem before and throughout the event. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • Engelsystem and wiki could've used longer login sessions. Every time I tried to quickly check my angel shifts I had to login again. -- Rot13 (talk)

Terrain

  • The western way to quiet camping was not accessible: so narrow that you can only go one way at a time and a huge log being in the way.
    • I actually opened it up significantly with a trolley, it had 1,5m high weeds on it and was almost overgrown. SA007 (talk)
  • The quiet camping area (Wilson field) turned out to be quite crammed and could be bigger for the next event. I assume this was caused by the scouts taking some of that area due to the unfortunate double booking. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • The quiet camping really missed a shower container, nearest was the family village, a 15 mins walk. (with sha2017 there was one) MrLinux
  • Not something really on us, I knew that the public bike path was to remain open. Most bikers were considerable in slowing down when crossing the Backbone at least, but some seemed to really adamant to enforce the negative stereotypes of people on road bikes. Create some speed bumps with cable ramps next time maybe? -- Dany (talk)
    • +1, experienced one near-collision with a wielrenner myself during buildup -- Polyfloyd (talk)
  • It would have been good to (more strongly) encourage people with small children to camp in Family Zone and not Quiet Camping (Wilson field). It's unreasonable to expect small children to be quiet all the time, and yet this is what is expected on Wilson. Maybe we can make that clearer. Moem (talk) 13:49, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
  • really loved having the orga tents on the south trunk. For next time, maybe only have those teams on there that actually interact with visitors. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • Next time maybe also place some villages on the south trunk road, the south trunk looked a bit 'dead' now with only orga tents. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • The Zuse 'aux' path over the dike was weird and not signed properly, I walked it at night and actually looked at the map on my phone where the spot should be to get down off the dike. The path seemed to be 'walk up the dike', 'don't see any hint on where the path should be going...', 'look it up', 'walk ~150m to the left without any clue if it is the correct way' 'suddenly find a path down again'. SA007 (talk)
  • For me, it was the first hacker camp and i like the terrain with the ways, water, lakes, woods etc. much more than other camps, where all tens be a on a very large field -- Foorschtbar (talk)
    • It was the same for me and I'm also a big fan of the terrain. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • The online map was great - would be nice to 'level it up' for next time: searching on the map, better interlinking with the wiki, export to OsmAnd in a way that allows searching as well, mobile usability, etc -- Raboof (talk)
  • Having the online map was great, but I wish to have something more optimized for mobile devices for the next event. Performance was poor (in mobile Firefox at least) and I totally missed the options menu for showing villages. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • The online map was great, but I worked a lot with printed maps which were all outdated. I dont expect daily printouts, but during the teardown, the maps were still at the level of Day 0, where much has already been moved. Due to the missing Village function, the webmap was not an alternative for me.
  • I always got lost at night because the signs weren't illuminated: I had no idea what field I was looking at/standing in. -- Bronsen (talk)
  • map on mobile was a pain, perhaps to incompatible browser. And it would have been nice to link from a village's map inlay to the big map for easier orientation. -- Bronsen (talk)
  • Please put up sign posts to show in which direction other fields are. -- Bronsen (talk)

Ticket and Entrance

Toilets / Showers

  • The maintenance crew for the toilets/showers did a great job, IMHO, those facilities where usually in very good shape. Alxndr (talk)
  • Easily the best showers of any hacker camp I've been to. -- Q3k (talk)
  • There should have been showers closer to the quiet camping area. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • This has been my first hacker camp and I don't know the "hacker camp standards" on showers but I know a lot of music festivals. Compared to this, I must say the showering experience was simply great! I always had warm water and never had to queue and this is something I NEVER experienced on any festival yet - I'm used to waiting and then having cold water only. -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)
  • Having urinals in all places where normal toilets were available would greatly have contributed to the cleanliness of the toilets, I suppose. -- Cyb3rk41 (talk)
  • The showers and toilets were GREAT. Well done everyone involved! Random suggestion: it was warm enough that I would actually have welcomed a (cheaper and more eco-friendly?) cold shower option. -- HerraBRE

Villages

  • It is useful that villages are distributed over the field beforehand, but I think it would be reasonable to expect villages to 'lay their claim' physically on day 0 at the latest, and from day 1 onwards have any remaining empty space welcome unaffiliated hackers. Forcing unaffiliated hackers onto designated "free for all" areas seems like an antipattern to me. It might be better to have 'dots' on the map rather than 'areas' for distributing the villages, to promote more flexibility? Perhaps we can make pretty 'poles' to put into the ground saying "Village X will be around here, and is a small/medium/big village" for orientation? -- Raboof (talk)

Village tent/furniture rental (Moebelhaus)

  • Our tent ended up being rotated by pi/2 compared to the map. This ended up totally throwing off what we were planning. We managed regardless, but it'd be great if in the future these maps would actually reflect reality :). -- Q3k (talk)
  • Our tent was leaking, especially on the connector between modules. -- Q3k (talk)
  • Don't see a spot for team tents. The Deco tent had a steel bar all around the bottom, making it really annoying with carts and a trip hazard. SA007 (talk)
  • Great service, very useful, good stuff. It would be nice to have some way to see which furniture was still 'in flight' and which had already been delivered, to catch missing/misdelivered furniture earlier -- Raboof (talk)

Visitors

  • Most visitors were excellent, as always. But in the next few years when thinking of the next event, we should probably talk about people who I guess must be new to this community, that are incredibly lax with the photo/filming policy, and behave like consumers instead of participants. --Juerd (talk) 20:49, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
    • agreed, many post in social media contain lots of peoples faces. I doubt that everyone was asked for permission.
  • I suspect that there were quite a lot of 'visitors' that didn't have a ticket on site walking around besides the scouts. SA007 (talk)

Volunteering / Angels

  • Providing the angels with reusable water bottles was a very good idea. Alxndr (talk)
    • Agreed -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 - I did use it a lot more than I expected at first, which was probably quite healthy to do -- SK (talk)

Volunteering

  • Put your feedback here :)

Angel Food

  • My only complaint about Mecklenb[öoøu]rg(er)? is that I still don't know how to spell their name. The food is wonderful, the people are great too! --Juerd (talk) 20:51, 30 July 2022 (CEST)
    • +1 Agreement from my side. The only thing i missed was more sorts of tea. i buyed one box of peppermint tea bags, and they where empty in 1h which means the people like it (more)!? -- Foorschtbar (talk)
  • The food was great, as always :) -- Pinoaffe (talk)
  • The angel food was incredible. One of the highlights of this event. -- Rot13 (talk)
  • Angel food was mostly great, except for the dinner on day 0 and some dishes otherwise. I'd also have appreciated some sort of meat at least every other day. - Noor (talk)
  • As always very good. Only complaint lack of coffee mugs -- SK (talk)
    • Ha! I think i did order them, but for some reason we didn't get them. Will make a note for next time. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • The Angel food was to die for (sorry, couldn't resist), big thanks to the Mecklenb[öoøu]rg(er) crew for that. Didn't miss a meat option at all. -- Dany (talk)
  • I want a Mecklenbørger for my next birthday. It was just so relaxing to know that the kitchen was completely meat-free. Moem (talk) 13:52, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
  • Great food just like at SHA, and nice to have no worries about things containing meat :) -- F0x (talk)
  • Phenomenal food by the Mecklenbørger crew -- Polyfloyd (talk)
  • The dish prewashing shift was introduced quite late iirc, it would have been helpful to have it from the start in order to eliminate an O(N) busy wait to drop and wash your plate -- Polyfloyd (talk)

Angel Kitchen

  • Dishwashing was a lot more manageable than at previous events, thanks to the fact that there as more equipment available. -- Pinoaffe (talk)

Angel desk and Angel system

  • I'd really like it if the Engelsystem alert emails contained the actual update in the email content. I'd get spammed with email notifications and if I wanted to actually read the update, I'd have to click through and login to the Engelsystem. I just ended up leaving most of those updates unread throughout the day. - Noor (talk)
  • Would be nice if the angelsystem was more usable on mobile -- Raboof (talk)
  • The login sessions could have been a bit longer, I was constantly kicked out when I just wanted to look up something. -- j0chen (talk)

Heaven

  • I assume this was just some miscommunication etc, but the outdoor seating was removed too early, esp given covid situation. Otherwise all good. -- SK (talk)
    • Yeah, it happened when i wasn't looking. We should have moved some tables outside. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • The rules for core-team people (which were doing shifts outside the angel-system) for the heaven food should be made more clear. MrLinux
    • That was actually really clear. Your teamlead might not have communicated it to you. Red wristband for 'full time work during event' and vouchers obtainable by teamleads for those doing work outside of the angel system. -- Sebastius (talk)
  • I dearly wish we would have had the time to decorate Heaven. Unfortunately, the loss of time during buildup (*shakes fist at the weather gods*) made that impossible. The tent itself was splendid, so spacious. Moem (talk) 13:54, 31 July 2022 (CEST)
    • Ah well, we did a little by ourselves with the parasols, and it was fine! Next time! -- Sebastius (talk)

Warehouse

  • Warehouse did a really great job. And I requested some really strange things. They even got Powercables and a Compressor for repairing the Flamethrowers. -- Justelex (talk)
  • Warehouse should maybe stock more small stepladders, I feel they were regularly all in use. Otherwise great supplies. SA007 (talk)

Waste / garbage / trash

  • Slightly sad that trash was just split into “glass” and “everything else”. It'd be nice if we could at least recycle cardboard/paper! -- Q3k (talk)
    • Agreed. Throwing everything into the "Other Waste" containers felt wrong. I understand this was on the waste company dropping the ball. Let's make sure this won't happen at the next event. -- Rot13 (talk)
    • +1 Agreement from my side -- Foorschtbar (talk)
    • That was the supplier dropping the ball in almost every category. It was in the plan (i co-wrote it) -- Sebastius (talk)
  • an awful lot of mate etc bottles ended up in glass trash I think - the later-deployed bottle collection crates helped with that -- SK (talk)
    • Yeah that happened last time too. We did plan for drop points. Not sure why the points weren't deployed earlier by team Bar. -- Sebastius (talk)